What Drives Winning with Brett Ledbetter, Consultant, Author & Speaker

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Brett Ledbetter is a Consultant, Author, Speaker and Co-founder of the What Drives Winning Conference. He is the author of 4 books: What Drives Winning, What’s Really Important, What Drives Winning Teams, and What Drives Winning Environments. He has given three TedX Talks on topics such as Building Your Inner Coach and How to Stop Comparing and Start Competition. Athletic Departments hire him as a monthly on-site thinking partner for athletic directors, coaches and athletes. He co-founded and facilitates the What Drives Winning Conference with Hall-of-Fame coach, Becky Burleigh. His work focuses on character development, behavior management, priority alignment and self-awareness. Brett works with and applies his high-performance training within education, military, sport and business sectors.

In this episode, Brett and Cindra discuss

  • What drives winning environments and cultures
  • How the championship coaches focus more on the process than the results
  • Why it is important to see a person over a player
  • Ways to fear of failure holds us back
  • How the best define failure in their environments
“The healthy, sustainable way is to live your values out in action.” @WDWconvo
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“If we think about when we’re unhappy, typically it’s because we’re focused on what we don’t have as opposed to what we do have.”-@WDWconvo
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“Sometimes we over value things because we haven’t experienced them.”-@WDWconvo
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“The real people, they look at how you respond to good and bad outcomes, the fake people, reinforce good and bad outcomes.”-@WDWconvo
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Full Transcription:

Cindra Kamphoff: So Brett I am so excited that you are here, joining us on the podcast today, I wanted to have you on for a while and do some really looking to forward to the conversation about what drives winning so thanks for joining us today.

Brett Ledbetter: It’s great to be here, thank you for having me.

Cindra Kamphoff: Let’s get started, and just share with us a little bit about your passion and what you’re doing right now?

Brett Ledbetter: So I started in the grassroots space and so quite frankly podcasts are a little bit unnatural for me and the reason we started doing them is because, as I transition from the grassroots space into college and professional ranks, working with those athletes, it became very apparent that there were people that were extremely influential to them in that grassroots space, and so, for me, the more we can develop resources for that group to move the needle with shaping the trajectory of those athletes lives that’s who were committed to.

Cindra Kamphoff: Perfect so I want to ask you a question to start off, and you know so much of your work is what drives winning and what drives winning like the environments and the support that people need to win what got you started examining this idea of what drives winning?

Brett Ledbetter: Was I mentioned, so I was in the grassroots space and yeah you’re meeting with athletes once a week for 24 straight weeks and it became very apparent to me that what they did when they were not with us was more important than what they did with us so we try to shape an environment that would foster intrinsic motivation, so when they went home they would have the drive to work on some of the things that they were working on, and I think that it was once you realize that if you have a really good plan, it’s not working for everyone, so why is that and we started to unpack that and what we realized is really from the original Ted talk that your character is going to drive that process, which then drives the result. And so we sort of modified our philosophy, a lot of it was based on one of your previous guests on your podcast Jim Lair that we really wanted to repurpose the sport experience to build character, because we felt like that would drive the process and what’s happened is as we’ve taken this into college in different sectors we really realized that character drives everything and it doesn’t matter where what space you’re in, and so we try and focus on that.

Cindra Kamphoff: So you know I think about the resources that you provided to really help people understand what drives winning and the conferences you put on the coaching labs and the books, you have. What would you say, has been the most surprising result you found so far just kind of talking about these ideas to experts to coaches to like high level leaders?

Brett Ledbetter: In terms of?
Cindra Kamphoff: Anything that stands out to you that’s gonna let you run with it.

Brett Ledbetter: So yeah I think that for me what’s always interesting is when you start talking about something that moves you then you start talking to other people, and you start to see themes emerge, and so, for us, speaking with the original what drives winning that idea that your character drives the process. That was a theme that emerged and then with the newest book what drives winning environments. The question we started with is how do you build an environment where people can do their best work and what we learned through those conversations was really how a leader defines manages and models their expectations really shapes the environment that people are working in and so defining was a proactive approach.

Managing was reactive and then modeling was all the time, and so I think, to get to your question it’s just like you find these different themes that coaches struggle with or leaders struggle with. And then you start to investigate those more and then solutions start to present themselves.

Cindra Kamphoff: So let’s dive into that idea first and you just you have a new book available what drives winning environments and you just said, defining managing and modeling give us a sense of how those three things impact winning environments?

Brett Ledbetter: So, if you look at define it’s a proactive approach and there’s a ball coach PJ Fleck who code yes soda and one of the things he did when he took over, is he had what he calls how university where anything that is expected is defined and he is using visuals to help them understand what it looks like and then, once you define that draws a line of acceptable and unacceptable behavior and so acceptable behavior is any behavior that meets or exceeds the standards of your program and great leaders want to catch above line behavior because that is the behavior that wins, and that we want repeated and it’s a way to educate everyone in the environment, and then the art becomes when you have someone not meeting the standard. How do you convert below the line behavior in a way that wins influence as opposed to force control.

Cindra Kamphoff: And how would you suggest that given you know what high level leaders have told you in the research that you’ve done, how do you, you know influence over control.

Brett Ledbetter: So often people use power tools, because coach typically from college down has a lot of power, and so they can force kids into meeting the standard, the challenge is it’s not a sustainable approach and having conversations with Daniel coil who wrote the talent code in the Culture code. Yeah he would talk about how have to verse want to want to get a 400% better result than half. And so, as we’re trying to convert behavior it’s trying to unlock a sense of ownership, so if a player, an example that comes to mind a player in a slump coach asked me to help this player. They couldn’t reach them, for whatever reason, and so the first thing I asked the player to do was if he had a teammate that was in the exact same situation so okay write down the advice that he would give that person, and the reason we had them write it down is because then he could commit to those words and he’d have the space to truly articulate what’s going on and when he presented that back to me it was about, hey you don’t just add value when you score is he needs you to lead in all situations, and you need to shut out the outside noise, extra reps isn’t kind of fix that and so if we assumed that it was something over

here, we would never get to the true source, we would just be addressing the symptoms. And there’s a great coaching line that jack Clark uses who coaches rugby a cow why guess when you can know and what we found is that truly when influence it’s more about asking the right questions as opposed to having the answers.

Cindra Kamphoff: Got it, and when I think about you know the last part you said, defining managing and modeling I’m thinking about. What I’ve seen great coaches and leaders do they realize that they’re a consistent model right and you know I’m thinking about mindset because that’s what we’re talking about like they model, the importance of mindset they know that their energy is contagious on the field right, so if they get frustrated in a call their teammates are going to get frustrated, a call, what do you see you know tell us a little bit about the modeling piece, and how you see that play out among the best leaders?

Brett Ledbetter: Well, I just think about like Yiannis identical Bo, who is a two-time NBA, MVP and I think if you asked NBA players is he the most skilled player in the NBA they would say no, and so how is it that he’s a two-time NBA, MVP and I think what it gets down to is how they handle the act and between the action the micro behaviors. A bag all a turnover those sorts of things and I think if you ask NBA players what is Yannis his greatness attributed to, they would have all point to that and so it’s the same for a coach one of the great lines comes from Jay right who’s the Villanova men’s basketball coach. He said that the most important thing a coach can do is to get your best players, the most committed to your core values so when you have a pianist who’s mastering the action between the action. What happened is the Milwaukee bucks the franchise they mirror his development because everybody else is picking up the cues that he’s sending and I think at the College level it’s exactly do you remember the old school clip where Will Ferrell is yelling, we have to keep our composure as he’s yes, the chair.

Cindra Kamphoff: Yeah sometimes I use it as like what not to do.

Brett Ledbetter: Exactly what he’s doing is in direct conflict of what he’s saying in the moment and I think that speaks to modeling you want to eliminate the signals so you can have consistency inside the environment.

Cindra Kamphoff: Yeah that’s great I really like the action between the action, and I remember reading that in your book when tribes winning. I think there’s so many ways that we can apply that to sport or our life in general?

Brett Ledbetter: There’s no question.

Cindra Kamphoff: So, Brett you said at the beginning about how you know character drives winning well tell us a bit more about that, and maybe other factors that you see Dr. Winning?

Brett Ledbetter: Well, so if the seasoned vets I’ve been around they look at the word winning as a loaded word, and so I think that what we try to do with all of our books they’re all questions and statements so it’s a search that unique to the individual, and so I think the key for a lot of

coaches it’s so easy to lose yourself on the chase towards excellence. So if you can get a game plan of what is your mission on earth, what are the roles tat you play and the supporting actions that you would want to reflect those roles and then try and take those and apply that to your chase and I think that you become a little bit stronger internally and there’s a healthy in a sustainable way to win, and I think that the best I’ve been around that’s what they’re constantly searching for.

Cindra Kamphoff: The healthy and sustainable way mm hmm and I think that has a lot to do with our reaction to not winning you know when I think about winning I think about did you lose the game or did you win the game, but what are the other ways, you know that you would say that the best define winning kind of give us a sense of what that means in your perspective.]?

Brett Ledbetter: So, have you ever heard the term focus on the process not the result? Cindra Kamphoff: Yes yeah

Brett Ledbetter: So we say that a lot that’s kind of what I’m thinking so you know A lot of people say that right and if they have an outcome. Yes, what do they respond to that outcome is clearly not in line with hey we’re focusing on the process and so to me like, how do we create that the healthy sustainable way is to live your values out in action and again it’s so hard when everybody else’s focusing on what society would deem successful. Right easy to get lost in that, and so to truly reflect important to me, keep those things in tact that is a rare form of a leadership.

Cindra Kamphoff: mm hmm I think about PJ Fleck which is somebody that I know you’ve interviewed and you just mentioned when he came to Minnesota people expected him and I live in Minnesota so fabulous different perspective, like people expected him to win right away, and then you know the next year, when it was all on board and then last year they lost a few right unexpected games and it’s really interesting maybe media’s reaction to that or just you know fans and I do see that the best do you sustain this they don’t they don’t take that in data they’re really careful about the messages that they’re listening to?

Brett Ledbetter: So I like what I would challenge you to think about is if you got on an interview or you posted what a third of the population, do you think would not be favorable toward you?

Cindra Kamphoff: um um well right now, they just don’t tell me.

Brett Ledbetter: They think as you get higher up there’s a lot more people that are not favorable and especially the more visible your work is right so like if let’s say you had an eight out of 10 approval rating, which would be remarkable right.

Cindra Kamphoff: Right right.

Brett Ledbetter: Think about your visibility of your work and then think about the President, the United States and if he had the same ratio which to get an 8020 as a president is like you’re probably not that’s not happening, but to think about certain regimes they’re not even welcoming certain states of the place that they reside over and so to me I just think about how strong your core has to be and so to pull it together with your question, if we think about when we’re unhappy, typically it’s because we’re focused on what we don’t have yet opposed to what we do have and appreciating what we do have and the more you achieve. Some of the trends that we’ve seen is that everyone around starts to focus on what you haven’t done as opposed to what you have, and so, if you pair those two things together, you have to understand that the higher the level you go the more you’re going to have to develop your internal journey because what’s happening outside your body, if that dictates your internal experience.

Cindra Kamphoff: Right.

Brett Ledbetter: When you inherit a situation like PJ did that can not only disrupt you and blow you up, but it can blow everyone around you up.

Cindra Kamphoff: i’m thinking Brett just about the self-awareness and personal development that takes to really be able to know what your values are live those values and then stay the course on those values, despite what other people might say, or the critics right that the people from the stands I think about pro athletes really have to segment that you have had several people that I work with just not close their Twitter account or not decided not to read any newspapers, because they can get in your head, but it takes it takes a lot of personal work. What have you seen the best leaders do in terms of like personal development, how did, how do you how do you see to get there to this this kind of space you’re talking about?

Brett Ledbetter: So what you just said there’s like three different things that can. So the first thing is, I see this with so many athletes they work their whole lives, developing the following, and then, when it gets to a peak what happens is maybe they don’t do something that reaches the expectation of their followers and then they see all this negativity so they work this and then they don’t want it anymore, and I think that is there’s a lot of wisdom in that that sometimes we overvalue things because we haven’t experienced them and so sometimes when they’re they have to experience pain to want to break through and trying to get them to understand that prior it’s because it’s a shot of heroin. I mean when you achieve, and everyone comes at you it’s literally and you don’t even know what’s happening someone’s drugging you when you’re asleep and so, when you want to begin to wake up you realize that there’s this detox phase that you have to go through. And those withdrawals are extremely painful for some, especially when you’ve been leveraging that, following that attention that approval for energy to help you do a better job.

Cindra Kamphoff: And yeah for sure.

Brett Ledbetter: It sounds to me like that’s a lot of the work that you’re doing with athletes is to try and become self-sufficient to where they don’t need that outside energy to help move them towards where they’re going.

Cindra Kamphoff: Absolutely, and it makes me think about a concept from your book when you were saying, like the best coaches see athletes, as a person over a player and sometimes we can get so caught up in you know that we are our performance or we are what we do so maybe talk a little bit about that?

Brett Ledbetter: I challenge you have used that before because I’d have to think that you went through that and then he gives you a direct empathy line to relate to the people you’re working with what about your, how would you describe it?

Cindra Kamphoff: Well um I would say there’s two kind of big moments in my life, where that I really struggled with that, when I was a college athlete I struggled because I didn’t perform very well, sometimes I thought I was the failure, instead of just that failure was what I did, and then the second point was actually when I started working with my first professional sports team and there was a player on that team that failed and I had a really hard time with it because I thought it was me right, and I think that I was kind of over identifying with my professional role right and also like people can make mistakes right, and I can I empathize with like coaches, who may be, you know their players, make a big mistake and it took me I don’t know months to kind of work through that.

Brett Ledbetter: When what was the internal dialogue like for you as you’re napping yeah.

Cindra Kamphoff: Well, I mean very harsh, you know, like what did I do wrong, how come I can’t figure this out watching have I done differently, I think, as a as a college athlete it was what’s wrong with me why can I figure this out and you know I got kind of stuck on just one failure that I ended up generalizing to be you know, like that I failed in college when it was just actually one race so bread that fuels me a lot to do the work that I do now, because I wish I would have known that like I’m not the failure that it was just something that I did not, who I am.

Brett Ledbetter: hmm. And so my question is, as you think through that is how was it like to live with you during that internal sabotage?

Cindra Kamphoff: That’s a great way to say it um let’s see, as you know, the second example is a professional my husband and probably would say, like you, are absent your quieted menu, where I mean I remember like one night crying myself to sleep.

Brett Ledbetter: So let me ask you this, when you’re when you’re crying okay? Cindra Kamphoff: yeah yeah.
Brett Ledbetter: He’s next to you obviously at this moment is that right.

Cindra Kamphoff: yeah, but I think he was sleeping.

Brett Ledbetter: But so let’s let’s just say that maybe he’s known or maybe is, but like your spouse and the restlessness that they have a man partners perspective would be on that.

Cindra Kamphoff: Right that’s powerful and I think sometimes when we are in the self-sabotage right we all can do it that it feels like we’re why me or that we’re all alone, and we have a hard time, I think, taking the perspective of another person that we love, so I think that was a really powerful thing to ask me.

Brett Ledbetter: Well, and I just think through so what you’re illustrating is and thank goodness, it was only a couple bonds for you and when you see coaches and they have years like this imagine what it’s like from the spouses perspective from the kids perspective to watch someone they love go through that.

Cindra Kamphoff: yeah and the drain, it takes on families, the drain i’m thinking about that it takes on personally, you know and I’m thinking, the lack of self-care right and it seemed a lot of coaches that way when they’re just grinding grinding and you know they do become sort of like unbalanced, it reminds me of a line that that coach was reflecting on his life and he said when I look back there’s a trail of tears shed by others. Yeah so when you think of the top leaders and coaches that you’ve seen be able to um you know deal with all the demands that it takes to lead at the high levels, how do you see them do that?

Brett Ledbetter: Well, I think it’s to approach it from a perspective of really understanding what’s important to you so I’m going to challenge. So you personally, as a professional so think about your perfect, how would society view your success, what would be the top three to five markers that you would say?

Cindra Kamphoff: I’ll probably that I have a book and I’ve you know working professional sport and I coached top like executives that that’s you know from the outside, they say, you know that’s what or I speak a lot right so that’s probably what outwardly seems like success.

Brett Ledbetter: So bulk, yep alliance events you’ve spoken at, your fee your speaking. Cindra Kamphoff: Yeah sure.

Brett Ledbetter: Your material possessions. All these math right. Now I’m going to do an exercise with it, can you do this.

Cindra Kamphoff: Okay.
Brett Ledbetter: There’s paper right there right?

Cindra Kamphoff: I do, and I got a pen.

Brett Ledbetter: Okay, new and narrate this. I’m going to ask you one, and can you write down your answers so you’re going to answer the same question 10 times in a row. Just take now as you write it don’t judge the answers. Okay, go through 10 times and then they’re great for everyone watching what you’re writing on your sheet of paper okay. So extremely simple and your listeners can do this, along if they’re watching us live or in the future.

Brett Ledbetter: what’s important to you and it’s about life in general what’s important to you so maybe just write down 10 answers that come to mind and then just narrowed those as you write them.

Cindra Kamphoff: Okay, so if I would say these out loud, I would say impact.

Brett Ledbetter: Number one let’s go ahead let’s write all these down so because we’re going to do something like this in just a second then okay, and how it’s happening.

Cindra Kamphoff: So love it Thank you. Okay impact people, service, education so like educating people with tools and strategies and faith family that’s important to me. My own mindset is important to me that I’m like being pro proactive with that and I’m feeling good about the impact, you know I’m so we got six. My friends are important to me, having courage, every day, is important to me like doing something that’s courageous is important to me let’s see we got a.

Brett Ledbetter: These are win wins the good answer start to come to fire just keep going with it keep going.

Cindra Kamphoff: So what’s important to me. I think, being a role model is important to me. I’m kind of paving the way for others that’s what I mean by a role model and last thing I think.

Brett Ledbetter: Don’t stay here’s what I’m going to give you a couple just to think through do not write these down because I’m saying okay.

Cindra Kamphoff: Okay.

Brett Ledbetter: Get health, self-awareness, exercise financial security. These might be a couple other things that I haven’t earned this day and maybe those don’t make your list okay. So why don’t you use that last slot for one and then we’ll do something with your 10 answers.

Cindra Kamphoff: and financial security.

Brett Ledbetter: Okay, so if I asked you do you have a list of 10 right them. Cindra Kamphoff: Yeah.

Brett Ledbetter: To prioritize your top five in order. Just take a second because you just did a stream of thought, when you were doing it but what would your top five in order be?

Cindra Kamphoff: um okay. So I think some of them all relate to impact so i’d say impact family being a role model, educating others so helping them grow and learn, and I think courage, like this is important that I, I know, actually, if I do something courageous every day, I feel more alive, so I think it’s just how I operate at my best so.

Brett Ledbetter: I would challenge you now, at this point okay so. Okay, friends, do they make the top five?

Cindra Kamphoff: yeah.
Brett Ledbetter: Where would they be?

Brett Ledbetter: Oh, this isn’t where it’s supposed the other zero judgment on my side, these are just more questions you know these.

Cindra Kamphoff: Right, I would say, you know, maybe the education piece could be similar to the impact piece, so I could probably consolidate them and then I put friends as four.

Brett Ledbetter: Okay, and so what’s number one?

Brett Ledbetter: Impact and you would put that over family?

Cindra Kamphoff: They’re here.

Brett Ledbetter: Together, then what’s number two.

Cindra Kamphoff: Maybe impact family they’re tied but role model. Okay yeah or friends and five is courage.

Brett Ledbetter: Okay, so you would take those five right and you can modify those, but if you stack that up to how society views you successful. Hmm book, yeah clients, yeah money, mm hmm speak speaking events. What have you noticed about the two lists?

Cindra Kamphoff: Well, I think it helps me because I think i’m on a mission to impact more people if it’s with this podcast sometimes I can get in my own head with like trying to finish a product right which is like what society deems successful versus the impact and like knowing that if it’s just this you know this interview, for example, helps people right impacts people thousands 10s of thousands so I think that helps me feel more free.

Brett Ledbetter: When to me it’s the first of all you’re displaying great courage in this because I’ve kind of flipped to the audio a little bit I’m intentionally.

Cindra Kamphoff: I like it.

Brett Ledbetter: Relatable to what the question was and what I hear on one side and what a lot of coaches observe is that what’s important to you is very different than what society values and so do you have the courage to be your true self despite what everybody else as and to me I think that’s where your role is so important s to get people to have strategies to anchor in to what’s important to them so they don’t lose that wild thing this other stuff that truly as you reflect back on your life you place less value on after you achieve it like think about this. A lot of the coaches I deal with they go to a dark spot after winning their first national championship and you would think it might be a little different but it’s because they can finally assess was it worth it and typically we overvalue achievement prior to achieving it. And then, once we achieve it, we can look at sacrifice and a lot of times if we’ve gone all in on that and neglected the things that are important we realized that we made a mistake and sometimes for a lot of the coaches, they went it in their 40s like that’s their first one is usually because it’s a 20-year goal for a lot of people and so, when you reflect back if you have kids and you’re like wow I raised with this value set that it’s going to be very hard to undo because they’re past the most influential years of me being able to shape them and now it’s like wow I need to figure out and really recalibrate my life, and I think that those two columns help us understand how we’ve been socialized and the more awareness, we have, the more intentional, we can be to combat those things.

Cindra Kamphoff: It makes me think Brett of their research about Olympians that you know they experienced depression and symptoms of depression getting back from the Olympics, or I read a story about how Aaron Rodgers when he won his last or first super bowl I can’t remember you know, he experienced the same kind of thing so it’s like this hi this build up and I like what you’re saying about how society deems what they deem important to us this list is really your values.

Brett Ledbetter: It’s what’s really important to you and it’s not saying that the society stuff it’s not important, but like there’s a great line that Jim lair said “The why behind the chase is more important than the chase.” And so as long as so we had him, he was our first guest at what drives winning and we wouldn’t have our Conference if it wasn’t for Jim I he changed the trajectory of my life and the first thing he said at our first conferences, yes, the audience a question how important do you think it is to know the reason behind what you’re doing and if you truly reflect on that it’s with that level of intentionality you have to live, if you are going to go into the arena at the highest level.

Cindra Kamphoff: hmm that’s powerful and how have you personally done that?

Brett Ledbetter: For me it’s getting a game plan and it’s truly understanding Okay, what is my mission on earth, and for me personally it’s the grow and serve and then, what are the roles

that you play and I have a relationship with myself and have a relationship with my family and friends, I have a professional relationship, I have a leadership relationship and then, I have a I have one other one and it’s right to where you basically go through those roles and you ask what are the actions that I need to do to fulfill this role in a way that I would be most proud of on my deathbed and then it’s you set up an audit system to where you review it monthly or quarterly and then you ask the people that you’re involved with did I do these things. Okay, they give you feedback to figure out whether you’re on pace to be the person that you want to be.

Cindra Kamphoff: So when you think about yourself what would be within your vision as you’re on your deathbed what is it that’s on that as it a list or give us, you know, give us a sense of what that looks like so people who are listening can, I think that think about how they might do this?

Brett Ledbetter: um mine’s a little abstract my goal always is to lose myself and to truly be present, with the person that I’m with, and so the successes and the failures that are generated from our interaction have nothing to do with me and it’s really hard to get to that space, so one of the ways I measure myself and my relationship is there’s four dimensions of health. So the physical component is the fuel I’m putting in my body, how much Am I sleeping how much of my exercising and what’s my hydration, then the mental piece is how much of my thoughts are anchored in the present versus the future and anxious about what’s coming or the past regret of what’s happened and emotionally do I look at things as a threat or an opportunity and then spiritually Am I operating with something bigger than self, and so I can check those boxes on a daily basis that’s going to help my signature be closer to what I want to reflect my life on my deathbed.

Cindra Kamphoff: Yeah and I remember, I think it was maybe in the workbook of what Dr was winning there’s an exercise for people to do that.

Brett Ledbetter: mm hmm.

Cindra Kamphoff: So one of the reasons why you should check out Brett’s work and grass I segue. I have one other question before you wrap up and I have a feeling we could talk for hours, but one of the things I really liked about the book what drives winning is this comment about failure and you said, people feel failure when they attach their so forth, to achievement. When this happens, what they do becomes how they are or who they are, I don’t remember if it’s, however, who but, I think that gets that you know when you were asking me my personal examples of how I detached myself to my profession or to my performance. When you think about that comment and, particularly, you know how failure is defined in winning environments tell us a bit more about that comment and how you see failure defined in winning environments?

Brett Ledbetter: With so maybe you and I could approach that together if you’re good with that yeah well as you a question because I think that first of all your willingness to share some of the

setbacks that you had and the growth points you had that’s I think why your audience is magnetized towards you, and so my question to you would be, what is the difference in your mind between these two statements I’m a failure and yeah I failed.

Cindra Kamphoff: The difference to me is that I am a failure I’m taking it personally and I’m like it well impacts myself worth X impacts my confidence my belief in myself when it’s like I see it as something that I did like I failed and, and you know, the more you kind of do this work Brett like I don’t even know what failure is like I think we can define failure on our terms, we can decide what we think is failure and I think so many times in this kind of gets to your point that we let society impact our understanding of failure, instead of like consciously deciding how I want to view failure. So I think that what I’m seeing, I am a failure it’s something I can learn from something I can grow from.

Brett Ledbetter: To see how that works and one you like you said you’re attached to yourself, the other you attach to event and, as I guess a line that really resonates around this concept is the real people.

Cindra Kamphoff: mm hmm.

Brett Ledbetter: They look at how you respond to good and bad outcomes. Okay fake people reinforce good and bad outcomes and I think if you can wrap your head around that you realize that what we’re truly inspired by is people that overcome setbacks in order to overcome a setback, you have to have a setback, really what we’re zoomed into is how you respond to good and bad outcomes and if you can get people to grasp that especially the higher you go up like in the NBA you’re going to lose a lot of games, because the margin of error is so small were in college, it might be a little different and so their failure recovery it’s just part of the process where in college, you see these guys have to almost quit because they can’t deal with it and then they’re projecting that onto their players and then it just perpetuates we’re in the NBA that would never happen, it requires great responses at that level.

Cindra Kamphoff: So how do you define failure?

Brett Ledbetter: We did a really cool feature and it’s on YouTube and if you just search my name and failure does not exist.

Cindra Kamphoff: I thought you’re gonna say that.

Brett Ledbetter: One of my favorite videos because Jamil hill who formerly worked at ESPN as Kobe Bryant Are you the type of person that loves to win or hates to lose? And when we ask athletes that they usually have a convicted answer one way or the other head how Koby answered it is that I’m neither I play to learn, and I think that when we realize that good and bad outcomes are just lessons, then we take the emotion away from it, and we can think strategically about how we want to progress from that.

Cindra Kamphoff: Awesome Brett your work is so powerful I this episode is very powerful for our interview as powerful helped me think about my values even more and being a little articulate That, too, I really appreciate and the way that you pushed me so thank you for doing that.

Brett Ledbetter: So many great ideas say it’s it is inspiring. How authentic you are because a lot of people would hide from those questions and you’ve learned in, and I think that again your willingness to have the tough conversations. You why you have can I’ll tell you what it makes me think of is our ability to influence seems to be correlated with our willingness to listen and understand and it makes sense to me why people would gravitate you because your willingness to listen and understand.

Cindra Kamphoff: yeah well, thank you Brett. Brett Ledbetter: I mean that.

Cindra Kamphoff: it’s really nice, you know, and I have some kind of sort of maybe power phrases over on my grid board I call it over here and one is like I am love so showing up like with empathy and understanding is really important to me, but the other one is I am me so you know I’ve really worked on myself just to be me, and this is this is absolutely me right today it’s like I’m kind of bubbly and energetic and kind, so I appreciate you noticing that that makes me want to keep doing it.

Brett Ledbetter: You’re one radiates.

Cindra Kamphoff: Well, thank you Brett so definitely go over and check out Brett’s website what drives winning he has several books that are incredible. We got what drives winning what’s really important what drives winning teams and now his latest what drives winning environments. I also know you have a coaching lab and a conference of your you know I love the interviews that you do on the conference really just really powerful interview so tell us a bit about you know your, I guess, I already gave everybody where people could go get your stuff but what, what do you think is important to start with?

Brett Ledbetter: If you enjoyed this conversation I think that you would really enjoy the books and one of the things that I enjoy the most is the Community we built through the coaching lab and my coaching lab is something that we do we meet twice a month. You should get in it, you would love it and there are elite thinkers and it and it fits you just go to learn about what drives winning calm and there’s information there and the goal is for us to just share resources that we all can take back into our environments to where we can impact the teams that we lead.

Cindra Kamphoff: Excellent do you have any final comments for everyone who’s listening either live or on the podcast.

Brett Ledbetter: I think I just appreciate your energy that you direct at this, I know that you’re very serious with your approach on what you share. And I think that if you all the resources that you’re generating to help leaders better navigate the moments with their team that increases their social agility and their competitive maturity, so I think it would just be more signing off with appreciation towards the work you’re doing.

Cindra Kamphoff: Thank you Brett Thank you so much for joining us and I appreciate all the work you’re doing.

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